Heaven and Earth nurture and nourish the myriad things including humans. Yet humans nonchalantly take away their own lives and/or the lives of innocent people. According to news reports, committing suicide in groups is apparently in vogue in East Asia where the misguided few get to know each other on ‘designated’ websites to plan group suicides.
Suicide is not actually a new phenomenon, as people had committed suicide in China more than 2,000 years ago.
In 496 BC, mass suicides were used as war stratagems to confound the enemy in the frontline – 300 convicts of Yue committed suicide in front of the Wu army. During the confusion, King Goujian and his Yue army together with two 500-man suicide squads won a resounding victory against the aggressor, King Holu of Wu. (Of his war strategists, Sun Wu (Sunzi) had already retired by then and Wu Zixu was ordered to guard the Wu capital together with the crown prince, Fuchai)
King Holu died of his wounds and left it to his son, Fuchai to take revenge. King Fuchai defeated the Yue army three years after his ascension. By bribing Bopi, King Fuchai’s favorite minister, King Goujian escaped death and saved his Yue state. However he had to become a slave of the King of Wu and had to suffer three years of extreme hardship before he was released and returned to Yue. Upon his return he underwent self-imposed hardships so as to strengthen his resolve to wipe out a national humiliation. It took him twenty years to make Yue strong and prosperous; all the time waiting for the right opportunity to crush Wu. When the Wu army mounted an expedition in the Central Plains for hegemony, the Yue army attacked the capital of Wu. The Wu army rushed back to save the capital but it suffered a crushing defeat and was wiped out. King Fuchai sued for peace but was unsuccessful. Overwhelmed by remorse, he killed himself. After exterminating Wu, King Goujian went on to become an overlord of Eastern China.
In the above story, perhaps you can discern the difference between a great man (who arose amidst great oppressions) and an inferior man.
But most suicides were committed out of shame – Duan killed himself in 722 BC upon the failure of his revolt against his own brother, Duke Zhuang of Zheng. So did a number of Han princes after failed revolts including one led by Prince Liu An of Huainan against their own kin, Emperor Ching. (Prince Liu An while planning a revolt had commissioned the writing of a book known as Huainanzi.)
The Grand Historian, Sima Qian had this to say: “Well does the Book of Songs say: ‘the northern barbarians should be punished, and those of Ching and Shu chastised.’ The princes of Huainan and Hengshan were the emperor’s kinsmen and ruled as princes over a thousand li of territory. Yet instead of assisting their sovereign as good vassals, they took to evil courses and plotted high treason. Thus both fathers and sons lost their land and perished themselves, becoming a laughing stock throughout the empire. The fault lay not solely with the kings, however, for the local traditions were bad and their ministers led them into evil ways. The men of Ching and Chu are reckless, foolhardy and quick to revolt, as has been recorded since ancient times.” (Perhaps herein lay a lesson for current leaders of states?)
If you ever consider taking your own life, do spare a thought for your loved ones and that of your parents. Sparing a thought for your loved ones and parents, also spare a thought for the innocent people (their loved ones and parents) before you ever decide to take innocent lives along with your death. No great religion condones a suicide let alone the murder of innocent people. Neither will Heaven condone such act (s).
Although Heaven, Earth and Sages treat people like straw-dogs (TTC 5), the Way of Heaven is always on the side of the good man (TTC 79). So whether you want to be a good man or an evil one, the choice is yours and yours alone.
11 comments:
Heaven and Earth nurture and nourish the myriad things including humans.
Yes, but Heaven and Earth also take lives, both animal and human, apparently at random. Is the deliberate taking of life worse than at random?
As I understand it, Heaven and Earth follow the law of Tao and Nature. Man has learned the laws of nature, while animals rely on basic instincts to survive. Natural disasters are far and few in between, with adequate precautions taken and early warning systems in place, deaths arising from such disasters (caused by earthquakes, floods, volcano eruptions, typhoons, and tsunamis for example) can be avoided or minimized. The rest is then up to fate. Therefore can we make Heaven and Earth responsible for such random deaths?
There are early warning systems in place now, 2005. For thousands of years there were none, except for those who could understand the signs.
What is fate? Does it not follow the law of Tao? When I said Heaven and Earth above, I meant it as a symbol of Tao.
It seems to me life begins and ends randomly (or what seems to be random), whether big disater such as earthquake or epidemic, or small disaster such as falling down or getting sick.
Why is suicide any different from someone getting any other kind of illness and dying?
Obviously we are addressing the living as nothing can be done for those who are dead and gone, although as you are aware, we can learn much from the ancients and the past.
Fate, as I am aware, is predetermined by Heaven which governs time. From my limited experience, the Yi provides guidance on how to master one’s fate by overcoming life’s obstacles and time. There are other ways to change fate (for better or worse) but there is no necessity to discuss them here.
Humans generally try to live a healthy and happy life whether they are rich, poor, middle class; educated or illiterate. When they fall ill they seek cures for their illnesses. If their illness is terminal, it is unfortunate; however everyone has to die eventually whether from old age, illnesses, epidemics, accidents, wars or disasters.
But do you not think that this is different from a premature ending of one’s own life (and/or innocent lives) by committing suicide (or by being a suicide bomber) especially without a thought for one’s (and/or others’) loved ones and parents? Since you know about Tao, is it humane and just, to take your own life and/or that of others?
P.S. It is really nice talking to you and I would really appreciate if you can put a name to your next post. At least I know it is not a friend or an acquaintance trying to pull a fast one on me.
Welcome and thanks, Pakua.
Actually subtle references were made on suicide bombers in my blog entry. I had to be a bit more explicit as you did not seem to spot it. The tell-tale signs were a story on suicide squads; being greatly oppressed; great religions and heaven not condoning suicide; and the taking of innocent lives along with the suicides. The gist of the entry was to tell readers not to consider suicide as a way out of oppressions and that it is damnable to kill innocent people (and not what young Moslem suicide bombers have been led to believe).
Yes, war is never a good thing, but at times unavoidable. Similar to the suicide squads of the Yue state, suicide bombers can be considered patriots if they use bombs to defend their country in a war against enemy soldiers of the aggressor. However in times of peace, if they plant bombs in other countries to frighten, harm or kill civilians then they are terrorists as they spread terror to innocent people.
Japan had no right to invade Asian countries in the first place, why then discuss their kamikaze bombers? Wars are started and ended by humans. Although when wars are fought without benevolence (ren) and righteousness (yi), such actions can be said to go against Tao; what has Tao and nature got to do with war and peace?
Your question on suicide arising from mental illnesses has already been answered in my previous post that is to seek a cure for illnesses.
One has incorporated some Daoist and Confucian thoughts in the blog entry which you may have missed. Taking one’s own life without a thought for one’s parents is not filial (Confucian). Benevolence (humane) and Righteousness (justice) are two of the cardinal virtues according to ancient, Neo and current Daoist and Confucian thoughts. Cultivating virtues (Te) form part of Tao cultivation. Western Daoists often use the words; compassion or love instead of benevolence therefore I had added ‘loved ones’ in the blog entry and in my discussions with you.
Hi Allan, for some reason it won't accept my password.
The reason I mentioned the Japanese suicide bombers is because, everyone denounces the Muslim suicide bombers but no one denounces the Japanese bombers. I understand the Japanese bombers aimed at warships, and therefore you might say what they did was ok, but I question that. A life is a life, whether civilian or soldier. I don't understand why you draw a distinction.
If some are oppressed, they will choose whatever weapons are available to do maximum damage to "the enemy". Is it nobler for the Americans to send missiles into Bhagdad? I don't think the Muslim bombers consider that this is a time of peace. They have declared war, just like any group anywhere in the world that starts off with guerilla warfare, until they develop an army.
It seems to me, war is war. If you accept war, then you can't make distinctions like, this killing is ok, but that one is not. Does Tao make these distinctions?
Regarding, no great religion condones suicide, I understood Bhuddism to say it's nobody's business except the person who does it. While it's regrettable, it's up to the person involved. Of course it's not condoned, as no taking of life is condoned, but it might be understandable.
I guess what I'm getting at, what is Tao and what is man-made? I don't go along with accepting men's thoughts as to what is right and wrong. For example, Confucian filial duty does not outweigh my life direction. I can argue against Confucius by a story of Jesus saying that one must live one's life even if it goes counter to parents. That's simply cultural, is it not?
Of course, people like you and me try to cultivate virtue, but does that apply to someone who is sick and depressed? They don't care about virtue, they just want the the bad to end.
One doubts much people would be interested in events that happened in World War II. Soldiers are employed to defend and probably die for the country in the event of war(s). It is their profession. With that, a Chinese saying (often quoted by my late father in our discussions on ancient warfare) comes to mind: ‘Employ soldiers a thousand days, use for a moment’. Can we classify civilians under that line too? No. A clear line has always been drawn between civilians and soldiers in any war, discounting any atrocities committed by soldiers.
The US army has fought two wars with Iraq over the past two decades. The earlier one was fought for benevolence and justice; with the eventual outcome (when the Iraqi army was chased out of Kuwait) applauded and welcomed by almost the entire world; while the recent war was objected to by many countries. This shows the world does recognize and value virtues after all, do you not agree? So what is so virtuous about bombing and killing innocent civilians either in times of war or peace?
Any adult individual can rationalize and justify his or her own actions in any way they wish to, be it on cultural, doctrinal or religious grounds. People are free to live their lives the way they want to in a free world within the confines of society and laws. That is all one can say.
What is ultimately right or wrong is for the individual to decide. Probably a point you wish to bring across which I duly take note with respect.
Yes I agree everyone rationalizes their actions, be they suicide bombers or Americans. I think what I was really interested in, does any of this matter in the realm of Tao, which is how I asked my first question, and somehow the discussion got sidetracked into the realm of the human.
It seems to me, from my very limited perspective, that Tao doesn't care. Life comes into being, and life ends in a thousand different ways. Whether the end comes through a bomb, or falling downstairs, or cancer, does it really matter except to the one who dies?
If you look at nature, there are also a thousand ways to die, none of them pretty. Why should the world of man be different?
Pakua,
The answer to your very first question was already stated in my blog entry. "Although Heaven and Earth nurture and nourish the myriad things including humans"; "Heaven, Earth and Sages treat people like straw dogs".
However, just as Heaven favors the good, Daoist immortals or deities tend to help the virtuous Daoist who cultivates Tao. And these divinities do care about his or her life.
The answer may be there for those who are learned and have studied those books, such as yourself.
Others, such as myself, try to learn by questioning and discussion and debate, with those mentioned above, seeking clarification why this is so and why that is not.
Thank you for your time. My apologies if I seemed argumentative.
Pakua,
It is alright. Discussions can help extend our knowledge.
Feel free to drop in anytime.
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